From CNBC to Money Rehab: Nicole Lapin’s Story of Financial Resilience & Rebuilding After Loss

CMF_EP08_Nicole_Lapin_Audio

Daryn Kagan: [: 00:00:00

And what happened?

everything. If you would've [: 00:00:30

Daryn Kagan: Hi friend. Welcome to Call Me Friend powered by Miss Lu's Cabin. This is the podcast where we [00:01:00] call my friends and you get one heck of a great story. I have been going back and looking at [00:01:06] some of my. Early episodes, and I'm partly proud. I partly cringe, [00:01:12] but in general, I am proud that I just got myself out there and really what I really appreciate [00:01:18] is your support.

subscribe. All those things [: 00:01:24

If you'd like that, I have a link where you can sign up down in the show notes. [00:01:42] So let's go back to cringing. And speaking of cringing, I am thinking about. My friend [00:01:48] Nicole Lapin. Okay, so you're thinking that's not a very nice thing to say. Cringing and my friend [00:01:54] Nicole, but hold on. I think I'm going to connect the dots and I think Nicole is actually gonna fill in some of those [00:02:00] dots for us as well.

lling New York Times author. [: 00:02:06

How about being a national financial news anchor on CNBC [00:02:30] and she had a load of personal credit card debt. That doesn't really seem on brand, but she'll [00:02:36] talk about what she learned from that, how she got there, and more importantly, how she got out and how you can get out [00:02:42] as well. If this is sounding real to you, well, it probably is because talking about money can [00:02:48] be really uncomfortable.

ey story. It goes back to my [: 00:02:54

There are few [00:03:12] people I have rooted for more than Nicole Lapin. She has lost jobs. She has looked for [00:03:18] love. She really wanted to be a mom and. She's made a lot of dreams come [00:03:24] true. She rebranded her career. She dedicated herself to helping other women understand money and [00:03:30] finance. She did find love and she became a mom.

It seemed like a fairytale, [: 00:03:36

What do you grab? What has she [00:04:00] learned? What is her perspective and how can all that advice help those of us who are going through our own stuff right now? [00:04:06] There's only one way to find out. Let's call Nicole.[00:04:12]

ode is powered by Miss Lou's [: 00:04:18

About 50 minutes south of Savannah, Georgia. A place so quiet, you [00:04:42] won't even hear road noise. Instead, you're gonna hear pink spoonbills. Wild [00:04:48] dolphins feeding by your private dock. The breeze whistling through the Spanish moss that hangs from the countless [00:04:54] grand oak trees all around the property. The porch overlooking the marsh is the perfect place to hang with [00:05:00] family.

e. You name it all while you [: 00:05:06

[00:05:24] Hi. Oh my God. It's so good to see you. So good to see you. I feel like I'm, I'm already gonna [00:05:30] cry. I feel so new, many things. Can we start? I just wanna reach through the phone [00:05:36] and the camera. I wanna give you a hug for so many things.

Nicole Lapin: Thank you.

an: Can I go down my list of [: 00:05:42

Thank [00:05:48] you. My list of hugs for, um, I'm so sorry. Oh, [00:05:54] thank you. For everything you've gone through and my hug for [00:06:00] even with all the things, all the blessings and all the things. So I'm just gonna wrap that just in, [00:06:06] in one big hug. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Darren. You're the best. Thank you. I was. [00:06:12] Telling Abe, our engineer, I said, when you see Nicole, and this is for everyone, [00:06:18] some people will watch on YouTube, but some people you know, listen audio, because I know you know the whole podcast world.

But I said, [: 00:06:24

Nicole Lapin: Wow. Wow. Uhhuh. I, I, wow. [00:06:48] Thank you. I, I feel so undeserving of that coming from you. Um, [00:06:54] you know, I, I. I would be almost embarrassed to hear, have you be a fly on the [00:07:00] wall for how I talk about you. I was actually just telling my producer about you, so I'm already like permed. We're all mess [00:07:06] about how we're a mess.

truly. Um, there's no other [: 00:07:12

Daryn Kagan: from you. That's so funny 'cause So I emailed you, I, I remember, didn't [00:07:30] you come up and introduce, introduce yourself to me at CNN.

How did this happen? So [: 00:07:36

Nicole Lapin: heard your version about Darren Kagan forever. [00:07:42] So, um. We went to the same high school. We had the same. Oh, okay. That's true. [00:07:48] Journalism

no. And just for the record, [: 00:07:54

C taught forever and ever. And ever and ever.

e Lapin: He ran. Yes, he ran [: 00:08:06

Um, but, but something so wonderful to aspire to and it was so cool to see that somebody [00:08:36] made it. So big coming from channel six where, where I was doing the little local cable access [00:08:42] news and somehow, uh. You know, maybe [00:08:48] five years after that I get a call to audition for the [00:08:54] digital network that CNN was starting.

And I was like, I know one [: 00:09:00

I mean, it, it's truly a moment and, and graciousness that I [00:09:30] will never, ever forget. So. Oh, thank you.

acking. You did reach out to [: 00:09:36

It ultimately kind of sputtered, not 'cause of you. Because it was before its time. Yeah. Not because, [00:09:54] but it was before its time, I think is what it was.

: It really was. It was, uh, [: 00:10:00

They laid off everybody. Yeah, the whole department, which I, I never what I was, yeah.

Daryn Kagan: Pulled the [: 00:10:18

Nicole Lapin: Go into depression. I was just like, I don't even know what to [00:10:30] do. Maybe I, I just go back to journalism roots like I was a big jade [00:10:36] journalist, you know?

all that stuff. I was like, [: 00:10:42

So I thought maybe I would, you know, do print journalism or do [00:11:00] investigative journalism or do something else. Mm-hmm. Um, and then, um. But I, I continued [00:11:06] on, uh, in, in broadcast news and went to New York and, and went

Kagan: to CNBC. Talk about a [: 00:11:12

Did you know, um, did you have to learn? Did you have to cram [00:11:24] a little bit? I couldn't, I couldn't have made that pivot. I know I couldn't have made that pivot. I mean, I could toss to the stock market [00:11:30] update, but I. I mean, even to this day, don't know as much about that as maybe. I, I, I [00:11:36] would've needed to in order to do that job.

ve yourself credit for. But, [: 00:11:42

Sioux Falls in Palm Springs. Uh, [00:12:06] went to this little broadcast company in Chicago that had a station in Milwaukee, which I thought I [00:12:12] would, you know, be like big market. I thought that would be my Darren Kagan moment. Yeah. No, that's a good,

Daryn Kagan: that's a [: 00:12:18

Nicole Lapin: Totally. Yeah.

thing to go be in Milwaukee. [: 00:12:24

Okay. I was 18 on the floor of the [00:12:42] exchanges.

landed after CNN, you go to [: 00:12:48

Nicole Lapin: Yes. I mean, kind of Listen, I, I grew up in an immigrant family, like mm-hmm. I [00:12:54] wasn't talking about stocks and bonds growing up. Right. It all sounded like Chinese to me. Yeah. It was, uh, [00:13:00] you know, I ended up, yeah.

ore I went, uh, to make sure [: 00:13:06

Daryn Kagan: You did it. Now, you've also been honest. I know about, so you pulled it together professionally for on camera. [00:13:24] But while you're talking finances.

. You, you're kind of a mess [: 00:13:30

Nicole Lapin: What was that picture like? For sure, like such a mess. I was in, [00:13:36] uh, credit card debt, you know, personally, so there, I think there was a disconnect between [00:13:42] talking about. Macro economics and actually getting my own personal [00:13:48] financial life together.

lly like, we'll, we'll learn [: 00:13:54

Um, you know, I, I felt, I felt so [00:14:18] embarrassed to be speaking about this general topic, but [00:14:24] feeling like I didn't have it together myself, self.

neral, what did that picture [: 00:14:30

Nicole Lapin: Oh, wow. Getting out of credit card debt. So, [00:14:42] so growing up in an immigrant family, I only saw cash, like nobody talked about a mortgage.

That wasn't a thing. And so [: 00:14:48

Mm-hmm. In a way that I could understand,

Daryn Kagan: which is [: 00:15:18

Nicole Lapin: created

tion of your beautiful heart [: 00:15:24

I'm going to use this to help other people, specifically other women, [00:15:42] how to access this world, how to fix their own money mess. So at a certain point. [00:15:48] You leave CNBC you when you go out and start kind of making your own brand. [00:15:54] That's still pretty early for journalists doing that.

pin: It was really early. My [: 00:16:00

The end, you are on this. Trajectory and you know, this [00:16:12] trajectory all too well, Darren. It was like the paradigm back in the day where you go to local news, [00:16:18] you go to network news, you go to the White House, you go to the morning, whatever, you go to the nightly [00:16:24] whatever. And he represented Katie Couric at the time and you know, so he was like, you're on this thing.

And I'm [: 00:16:30

And then I really, really [00:17:00] laughed. It was like a bad relationship where I was like, oh, one more time. We'll be,

Kagan: I'll go back. We can [: 00:17:06

I will make something happen. But people like you who [00:17:24] say, and I'm gonna pick myself up and make this change. I mean, where did that come from? So [00:17:30] you could have still been doing that.

. I started it like we broke [: 00:17:36

Mm-hmm. And understanding it. Um. [00:17:54] On my own helped me confront a lot of that. I'm still confronting a lot of that. Mm-hmm. [00:18:00] Uh, it runs really deep and I, I really realized at the time that there was [00:18:06] this void that nobody was talking. Uh, Susie Orman is amazing. She, [00:18:12] you know, trailblazed this. Mm-hmm. Area that I started playing in [00:18:18] and uh, and yet there was space for people to listen to her and maybe somebody else.

And so I [: 00:18:24

Phone number: I

Nicole Lapin: felt like [: 00:18:36

Daryn Kagan: We'll get to the fire. We're gonna get to that. [00:18:48] Um, but that's, but one more thought about this that I just again, really appreciate about you is that. [00:18:54] You, I remember watching this and watching you do these books. Um, it was Rich Bitch [00:19:00] and it was Bitch that, bitch that, yes, only two bitches. Only two bitches.[00:19:06]

remember g going like. Well, [: 00:19:12

It's like you looked around and said, I don't need a license for this. I'm gonna do this because [00:19:30] I say I'm gonna do this.

better when you say it. It's [: 00:19:36

Daryn Kagan: Yes, exactly. Exactly. So, um, [00:19:48] yeah, you to, I would love to know what that conversation was when you said, I'm gonna go do this.

Nicole Lapin: Whew. Um, [: 00:19:54

I think at that point you can find somebody [00:20:30] else and they can read, you know, just as well as I can. Um, I don't, I don't know [00:20:36] if. If that's enough. Um, and ultimately I decided it [00:20:42] wasn't. And, uh, and I, you know, took a big re, people were gonna have feelings Darren [00:20:48] about rich bitch. They were either gonna love it or they were gonna hate it.

[: 00:20:54

It was truly, like I saw the wage gap was narrowing, [00:21:18] but this financial literacy gap was wider than ever. Um, and it still is, which is why [00:21:24] I continue to. Pop out book, babies

n: Book, baby number five is [: 00:21:30

Nicole Lapin: This one [00:21:42] is not only geared toward women, I think with media, as you know, you can't be all things to all people or you're [00:21:48] nothing to anyone. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And so I really was like laser focused on who I was talking to and I knew [00:21:54] exactly who she was 'cause she was my former self. Um, but now, you know, as I grew up, I [00:22:00] think my audience grew up with me and you know, there was a lot.

In those [: 00:22:06

That was the money school and it was really this answer that I had been talking about for [00:22:30] years that we don't learn this stuff in school like I went to. That's true.

Daryn Kagan: Yep.

schools, fancy school, and, [: 00:22:36

I constantly complained about it. Um, and [00:22:48] so I just did something about it. I was like, well, here's my school.

the least likely professor. [: 00:22:54

Nicole Lapin: Honestly, Darin, if I had all the [00:23:06] money in the world, I would be sitting under a tree writing poetry.

I often say that [: 00:23:12

Daryn Kagan: [00:23:30] Um, so while this, um, professional journey is going on, there's also a personal journey.[00:23:36]

d to find the right partner. [: 00:23:42

Phone number: Mm-hmm.

n: It all, it's, it's like a [: 00:23:48

And what happened?

and then we lost everything. [: 00:24:06

Daryn Kagan: Yeah. And you're okay talking about this? I just wanna check. Yes, [00:24:18] totally. Okay. Okay. You're

sband first told me he loved [: 00:24:24

Which is the craziest [00:24:30] thing to say. I was like, it can't be this good. No. Like, something bad is gonna happen right now. And [00:24:36] I, and I tell my therapist this, and she's like, you know, sometimes it, it just works out. Like [00:24:42] sometimes it's just okay. Um, and things were [00:24:48] for a moment. Working out. And it was so odd 'cause I was like, what, what's [00:24:54] next?

catch here? And there wasn't [: 00:25:00

And so I, [00:25:30] um. You know, wanted to try to be thoughtful about creating that space [00:25:36] and built it while I was pregnant. Um, beautiful commercial office, um, which I was so [00:25:42] proud of. Built our whole life, like in kind of walking distance, her pediatrician, [00:25:48] everything. And, um, yeah. [00:25:54] Uh, I, uh. If you would've asked me [00:26:00] for the top 10 million things I was worried about postpartum, losing my entire [00:26:06] town, my, my home, my car, my office, my everything, everything I [00:26:12] owned.

I have a very creative, uh, [: 00:26:18

So like, I, I was still also wearing [00:26:36] diapers as my daughter was wearing diapers. Like, I, we just left. I didn't take my wallet. Um, my [00:26:42] husband didn't take his wallet. Um, we just put everybody in the dog in one car, and we went to our [00:26:48] friend's house and we watched tv and we thought, okay, like, we'll be back.

Like, and, [: 00:26:54

Daryn Kagan: Yeah. First of all, I'm again, [00:27:00] I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. What do you do? What's the first thing you do when you [00:27:06] realize it's gone?

Nicole Lapin: We [: 00:27:12

Like I, I was just in shock and I was kind of like, [00:27:42] in adrenaline mode, we have to find a place. We have to, we have a newborn. I [00:27:48] don't know what to do with this human being that I just birth, like I don't know anything. We have, [00:27:54] you know, nothing that we had just, you know, set up nothing, [00:28:00] literally no things.

time there was. Thousands of [: 00:28:06

[00:28:18] go mode, uh, along with so much competition, we were just fighting to find an [00:28:24] Airbnb or a temporary spot, and so I think I just tried to go into as much action [00:28:30] mode

could. And so now we're like [: 00:28:36

Um, first, from a [00:28:48] practical standpoint, you give some really practical tips about things you wish you did differently. [00:28:54]

insurance canceled the year [: 00:29:00

Not completely together with it. We got, you [00:29:18] know, very, very basic coverage for the office. I thought I would get insurance after I [00:29:24] had a baby. Um, and, uh, and so I, I really [00:29:30] wasn't prepared. It became a complete full-time job and so, so many things I wish [00:29:36] I knew and it became really. Tricky to admit. Again, like, Hey, I talk about this [00:29:42] all the time.

that talk about it. We talk [: 00:29:48

Like the most gut [00:30:12] wrenching thing was putting together an inventory of everything I owned, because even if it's not covered [00:30:18] through insurance or fema, I can be taken off your taxes. [00:30:24] Um, you know, just going through that process was, was gut wrenching. I wish I had just taken a video. [00:30:30] Please, if you're. If you're listening to this, just do that today.

Just, just do it. Just have it just in case.

Daryn Kagan: [: 00:30:36

Nicole Lapin: Yeah, it will. It will really help and, and jog and not that you.

[: 00:30:54

Daryn Kagan: Have you put together a plan, even if it's 10, 20 years in the making, have you and your husband [00:31:06] now say, okay, well this is where we're going, this is where we're headed. Like we are gonna stay in la, we're not gonna stay in la, we are gonna [00:31:12] rebuild, we're not gonna rebuild.

and fresh and raw, and we're [: 00:31:18

Nicole Lapin: Oh.

Daryn Kagan: Um.

a great question. Uh mm-hmm. [: 00:31:24

Mm-hmm. Um, [00:31:42] setting up this house and trying to make it home, buying literally everything from. [00:31:48] Spoons to couches, to everything. Um, [00:31:54] and I think we're going to be here. It wa for a while we were dreaming and we could do anything. [00:32:00] We could go anywhere. Mm-hmm. And but at the time it just felt like too much was changing.

Yeah. Um, we needed [: 00:32:06

Daryn Kagan: since this is a podcast about friendship. Can you think of things that friends did [00:32:18] right to help or that completely dropped the ball? That is like, you [00:32:24] think you're, you think you're helping when, but really that doesn't help.

Yeah. Oh, [: 00:32:30

Nicole Lapin: still need to process. Okay. All of that, um, from the last six months of [00:32:36] friends who have honestly disappointed, um mm-hmm. [00:32:42] And. People who I never expected to just be absolute [00:32:48] heroes. Um, and it's so, so hard to ask for help, and I think there have been a few [00:32:54] people that, yeah, it, it made me really sad that I muster up the courage to be really, really [00:33:00] specific.

, but there have been people [: 00:33:06

Mm-hmm. That we have gotten. The blood is thicker than waterline. Um, wrong. [00:33:36] That the mm-hmm. That the real quote, and you may know this, that, that the blood of the covenant is stronger than the water of the womb, which is the [00:33:42] complete opposite sentiment. And so I found such chosen amazing [00:33:48] family during it.

Which I'm so, so grateful for, to all focus on that.

Daryn Kagan: And that [: 00:33:54

So your bitch has been one big change all for the

cole Lapin: last six months. [: 00:34:18

This is just not fair right now. Like, what do you [00:34:36] mean, how do I feel better or worse than normal? Yeah. Like, what do you think? And, and at that point [00:34:42] it was like everything that I had planned, um, so carefully for, for. [00:34:48] Postpartum was just my, my, my and my nest. Like biologically you wanna [00:34:54] nest and the nest mm-hmm.

Exploded. Poof. Um,

Daryn Kagan: so, [: 00:35:00

[00:35:18] Um, how much do you feel like this has taken away from motherhood in some ways has it enhanced [00:35:24] because you really don't have time to freak out about things that you might be freaking out about if this [00:35:30] was a normal situation?

ous. What I thought I needed [: 00:35:36

I was like, I just need like [00:35:48] actual diapers. I just need, you know, a onesie. Um, and so yeah, it, it [00:35:54] was just the basics, um, that no, I, I didn't have, I didn't have time [00:36:00] for, for anything else. Um, but like just doing it. On the fly. [00:36:06] Um, just getting up and, and trying to mother through a crisis. Like, it, [00:36:12] it, she doesn't know what's going on.

Yeah.

out, um, baby stuff that you [: 00:36:18

Nicole Lapin: It's a really important question, [00:36:36] and I've talked about this in therapy because I thought mm-hmm. That going through it, it would make me less attached to [00:36:42] stuff. Like I had so much housing insecurity from growing up. I saw my house foreclosed on. I, [00:36:48] I just like wanted a home. And I, I wondered if that would change, um, during this, [00:36:54] because it's so ephemeral that.

ond. It was, it was funny. I [: 00:37:00

Um, and now they're all gone. Um, and so it was a reminder to, to use the stuff that you're [00:37:24] saving to, to wear the dresses that still have a tag. Um, because all of them [00:37:30] indiscriminately. We're gone. But I actually went more to the extreme of like, wanting everything [00:37:36] to be beautiful and perfect and, um, and just appreciate, but from a place [00:37:42] of appreciating it so much more.

se I thought it would be the [: 00:37:48

Daryn Kagan: I, I still think it's appropriate. I think it's appropriate. You just want it because you [00:37:54] appreciate it even more. Yeah. Um, and when I'm thinking about your journey, so [00:38:00] through the journalism and the finances and your personal life.

This spectrum that [: 00:38:06

Nicole Lapin: I think the sweet spot is somewhere in between. Thinking you'll [00:38:36] live forever and thinking you'll die tomorrow. And oftentimes we hang out on one of those extremes. And [00:38:42] we treat our money the same way. I think the way we treat ourselves and our relationships and a lot [00:38:48] that I've discovered in therapy is how we also treat our finances.

's the same thing. If you're [: 00:38:54

Beyond that [00:39:18] you kind of have the same. Happiness from money. Mm-hmm. Like, you can still, I think [00:39:24] it's more than that at this point, a little more than 75,000 bucks. But there's a threshold, like there's [00:39:30] an amount where you have your needs met. And beyond that, you know, the burger [00:39:36] is the same burger that anyone is gonna get that, you know, you can only watch one TV at a [00:39:42] time.

there's just a critical mass [: 00:39:48

[00:40:18] Safe or like we'll have enough. And, um, you know, I, I would venture to guess [00:40:24] that it's lower than what you imagine, um, you will need actually. Mm-hmm. [00:40:30] Um, and that will make you feel like you can buy anything there. There's little things [00:40:36] that are different for everybody, but for me growing up it [00:40:42] was. That I needed to turn off all the lights when I left a room to save money on [00:40:48] electricity and only flush the toilet if it was number two to save money on water.

ush the toilet all the time, [: 00:40:54

Daryn Kagan: but um,

Nicole Lapin: I

icole over. She's a flusher. [: 00:41:00

Nicole Lapin: Don't worry about that. But I'm very, uh, I'm [00:41:06] very. Extravagant with my light usage. Like I leave the lights on all the time. [00:41:12] It drives my husband crazy, but now it's my indulgence.

Like it's my, I made it, I [: 00:41:18

Daryn Kagan: So I'm gonna have to share [00:41:36] that story with Trent, my husband, who will come in and say, are you leaving that room?

[: 00:41:42

Nicole Lapin: Yeah,

Daryn Kagan: exactly.

Nicole Lapin: I mean, if that makes you feel good, Darin, yes. Bring trust over. Yes.

Daryn Kagan: I will [: 00:42:06

Mm-hmm. Everybody was looking at the next [00:42:30] richer person until you meet that richest person. And that richest person was [00:42:36] more miserable than any of 'em.

Phone number: Hmm.

just personally with his own [: 00:42:42

It's not, um, you

Nicole Lapin: [: 00:42:54

Mm-hmm. And, [00:43:18] um, when I was interviewing him. You know, he has all the money in the [00:43:24] world and over COVID. He lost his oldest son, uh, in a confident, and he talked about it [00:43:30] for the first time, and money didn't make him immune from that, and [00:43:36] he would've given all of it up, you know? Mm-hmm.

Daryn Kagan: Ly for his son. [: 00:43:42

Definitely, definitely [00:43:48] not. Well, a little thing that could buy a little bit of happiness. We like to ask everybody here on the podcast, what's the one thing [00:43:54] you're recommending to a friend? And it, it could be, um, like a show, a beauty [00:44:00] product, a book, a film, anything. You know, when you tell your friend, you have to check this out, what's the thing that you're [00:44:06] saying Besides Money, money Rehab podcast, because that's the thing that I'm telling people.

Nicole Lapin: Thank you. [: 00:44:12

I'm, I'm good. I'm fine. But [00:44:48] that's actually when you do the most important work sometimes,

Daryn Kagan: and you, I [: 00:44:54

Nicole Lapin: Who love. Oh. [00:45:06] Um, I'm been tearing up this entire conversation.

And so, um, um, but, [: 00:45:12

Tradesy, [00:45:48] uh, which she, she sold for nine figures, like is just one, the smartest human, the [00:45:54] best human, uh, that I have ever, ever met in my whole life. [00:46:00] And I am so lucky every time I get to talk to her, I just, you know, as somebody who [00:46:06] writes and. Speaks for a living. There's not enough words that I can ascribe to the friend she [00:46:12] is.

to mine, Nicole. Thank you. [: 00:46:18

You absolutely can. [00:46:36] With Money Rehab, the episodes I really, really like are when you bring on, [00:46:42] sometimes it's a celebrity, sometimes it's just somebody who needs help, where you truly do Monday Rehab and through the [00:46:48] power of story. Of, of hearing them and how you can help them. I'm not only just so [00:46:54] touched, but I learn a lot that way.

do with my story, I'm like, [: 00:47:00

Nicole Lapin: think financial health is, [00:47:12] and financial self-care can be up there with other kinds of self-care.

aryn Kagan: Well, this is so [: 00:47:18

Definitely. Thank you. It's so nice to hear. Mm-hmm. Thank [00:47:42] you. Thank you. We'll talk soon. Soon, you

Nicole Lapin: friend.

friend. Oh, that was such an [: 00:47:48

Really can, but the way she's rebuilding, like she's [00:48:06] rebuilt other parts of her life and the things that she appreciates and the people she's leaning on, and [00:48:12] not surprisingly, the thing that really touches me is how her good friend Tracy, has really been [00:48:18] the backbone of how she's putting things back together.

cy. Really appreciate you as [: 00:48:24

I think we can all use. Thank you so much to Nicole. You've been listening [00:48:48] to Call Me Friend. Executive producers for the show are Callen Kagan and me, Darren Kagan. The [00:48:54] show is produced by Producer, podcast and Journalist Inc. Production help by a [00:49:00] folic, Tammy gno and Rob Pa.

all Me Friend is more than a [: 00:49:06

It's a community. So head over to call Me friend podcast.com to join the conversation. [00:49:12] Or you can call or send a text to. 9 1 2 7 6 6 0 4 4 6 And you can leave Darren a [00:49:18] message there or maybe even share a story of your own, because when life gets real, you don't have to go it [00:49:24] alone. Call a friend. Call this [00:49:30] [00:49:36] friend.