Why Deborah Norville Really Left Inside Edition and the Surprise That Changed Everything

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I just want to be clear. You left Inside Edition. This was your choice. 100

00:04

percent. You decided after 30 years. I kind of felt like I've been here 30 years.

00:08

I can ask for this and I asked and they said no and I asked again and they said

00:13

no and I said I really really really would love to do this remotely and they said

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well no. I said okay fine. So how are we going to announce my departure and and

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what date should we agree upon?

all my friends right off the [: 00:01:18

So thank you [00:01:36] in advance. Today I'm thinking about, and I am talking about starting [00:01:42] over. You might be freaking out a little bit because what are the chances? You too might be in a, a [00:01:48] place where you're starting over with something where you know you need to start over with something, but you haven't quite gotten there yet.[00:01:54]

n with you. I certainly have [: 00:02:00

And that is actually what I specialize in. Sometimes things like, [00:02:24] well, like when I was let go from CNN. When they came to me and they said they weren't going to renew my contract [00:02:30] and short version of the story, I took that left, CNN and started my own media company where [00:02:36] I focus on uplifting and positive content.

pivot from a career that was [: 00:02:42

You're so brave. You went out and started your own company and, and created this. And I [00:03:06] have to say I disagree. I don't think I was brave. I simply was doing what I had [00:03:12] to do. I didn't just pick up and leave C Nnn, no, I had to get kicked out the door before I went on to start [00:03:18] something new. Yes, fire me.

Break up with me, kick me, [: 00:03:24

Everything today is good, but they can look [00:03:48] forward and see where they are today is not going to serve them, or they can get themselves to a better place. So [00:03:54] they voluntarily pick up, leave what is comfortable and what is good, and move on to [00:04:00] go after something better. That to me. Is what is really brave when it comes to [00:04:06] starting over, and that is why I am so excited today to talk to my friend [00:04:12] Debra Norville.

sting legend. You might know [: 00:04:18

She [00:04:36] was picked to become the replacement, the anchor on the Today Show to replace Jane Polly [00:04:42] only to be unceremoniously let go during her maternity leave. [00:04:48] Can you imagine? Well, what did she do? She picked herself up and she started over. [00:04:54] And that journey led her to Inside Edition, where, like I said, she has been the anchor for 30 [00:05:00] years.

hat she has decided to leave [: 00:05:06

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Well,

Deborah Norville: hi there. [: 00:07:00

Daryn Kagan: We, so, um, this is [00:07:06] one Georgia girl talking to another Georgia girl. So, um, put on your Georgia hat. Yep. We are on the Georgia [00:07:12] Coast about 50 minutes south of Savannah. Fantastic. I think I know where you are. Yes. We won't tell. [00:07:18] No, that's okay.

and I ran away during COVID [: 00:07:24

Deborah Norville: great. And we're doing

Daryn Kagan: [: 00:07:30

Deborah Norville: two camera shoot

Daryn Kagan: here.

Deborah Norville: I think. That's amazing.

we're able to do. You know, [: 00:07:36

Absolutely. Well, you look great. Exactly. You literally have not [00:07:42] changed. Thank you. Oh, well, you too. And I really wanted to check in and. [00:07:48] Make hooray and celebrate this huge moment for you of leaving Inside Edition after 30 [00:07:54] years. It's crazy. And, and

doff broadcast that they put [: 00:08:00

They interviewed my husband and my children and um, you know, went down memory lane with some of the [00:08:06] stories, but the nicest part was at the very end I was in the newsroom and we. Rarely [00:08:12] shoot in the newsroom unless there's, as you will, well know when something goes wrong in the studio. It's like, okay, fine, let's go to the [00:08:18] newsroom, we'll make it work.

e team was there with me and [: 00:08:24

Um, but I did mention a woman [00:08:48] who had been at the station where I started in Atlanta, one Georgia girl to [00:08:54] another channel five. Mm-hmm. And. I was still a college intern. I was getting [00:09:00] maybe 50 bucks a week to work as a reporter, but I was getting a cup of coffee out of the machine. And she [00:09:06] came up to me and she said, you being here has taken away the job from someone who, who [00:09:12] has a right to be here.

ke she was absolutely right. [: 00:09:18

She was taking up rent-free space in my head [00:09:48] and, and I'd like to think that when I said that and what I said to the people watching was, at some point [00:09:54] in your life, there will be someone who underestimates you, who doesn't believe in you, and [00:10:00] you can assess, you can accept their assessment of what they think your abilities are, or you [00:10:06] can prove 'em wrong.

So there you go.

ay about that. First of all, [: 00:10:12

But you have gone a against the [00:10:30] stereotype of women not supporting women. Oh. You have been very proactive about supporting [00:10:36] your TV sisters and, and other women as well, and I so admire that and appreciate that about you. Yeah.

Deborah Norville: Thank [: 00:10:42

The people that you work with, but, but you're speaking specifically about women. [00:10:54] Like I know the challenges they're facing. I, when the whole Me Too thing happened, [00:11:00] every woman that I spoke to had a story and you know, we never [00:11:06] told the story 'cause that was just, that went with the territory, but. We were all [00:11:12] able sort of, you know, after the fact able to support one, they're like, oh my gosh.

d to you too. Yeah. You two. [: 00:11:18

Daryn Kagan: Oh my, all of us. Yeah, all of us. Um, in terms of being told that you don't, you, you don't belong. I [00:11:24] had an a local news director who told me, um, you know, Darren in television. There's this it, and some [00:11:30] people have it and some people don't, and clearly you don't. Oh. So, you know, if you work really hard, you'll make it in this market, [00:11:36] but like, why would you ever dream of getting out of, you know, small market local news?

That's, that's who sat on my [: 00:11:42

Deborah Norville: you eventually you felt like you went, boom, you're out of there. I'm on [00:11:48] CNN, I'm on national tv, and you're still in whatever little local market and I hope you're enjoying my broadcast. [00:11:54]

me to CNN and I'm sitting in [: 00:12:00

And clearly you do. But I'm sure you've heard that many times. Before. [00:12:12] I love it. Well, one version of that I, I have heard, I love it. I've heard Exactly. Um, I'll say [00:12:18] though about the news director in that, in that market, he built a very successful TV [00:12:24] station. So kind of rather than being. Bitter as time went on, I, I think I kind of got more [00:12:30] perspective Yeah.

. So that's not where you re [: 00:12:36

Hundred percent. You decided after 30 years?

e: Yeah. In fact, um. COVID, [: 00:12:54

I'd figured out a way, 'cause my studio was virtual, so I didn't have a [00:13:12] set, which turned out to be a blessing. Mm-hmm. During COVID. Mm-hmm. Because I was able to imagine behind me is a [00:13:18] big screen tv. I was able to use a video that I had of the Inside Edition set [00:13:24] and use my airplay. From my iPad to throw it up on my tv.

So it looked like [: 00:13:30

Yeah. But there was a part of me that really longed. To be remote. Mm-hmm. I have a two hour [00:14:00] commute to the office and I just didn't wanna do that anymore. And I kind of felt like I've been here 30 years, I can ask for this. [00:14:06] And I asked and they said no. And I asked again and they said no. And I said, I really, really, really would love to [00:14:12] do this remotely.

are we going to announce my [: 00:14:18

And, and I'm just, you know, one, one [00:14:36] person in the candy store. And they decided that that's not how they wanna run their candy store. That's their prerogative. [00:14:42] Um. And how do you leave with anything other than gratitude after a 30 plus year run? [00:14:48] So that's why I left. And um, I'll tell you, the happiest person in America was my husband [00:14:54] because Yeah.

me and this way he gets it. [: 00:15:00

Daryn Kagan: Um, so yeah, 'cause I was wondering how you knew and when you knew, and it sounds like that [00:15:06] was kind of a process.

you've talked about this on [: 00:15:12

It's a different environment. [00:15:18] Um, the story selection is different. Um mm-hmm. The audience, uh, numbers have gone [00:15:24] down. Inside Edition is still, you know, I left with it in its strongest possible position, [00:15:30] but given what's going on in the broadcasting industry, it's going to be a challenge going forward [00:15:36] and mm-hmm.

variety of reasons. But the [: 00:15:42

From the same story I had done for the previous three years at the [00:16:00] Chattahoochee River Raft race comes to mind. That was one of em, like, you know, I can't think of a different way to do this story. And I just looked, I'm [00:16:06] like, that's when you have to leave. And I felt like, not that you, not that we'd reached the end of the, [00:16:12] the story.

o get a little the same. And [: 00:16:18

And. I was kind of meh about a lot of stuff. So it just, it was the right time. And let's face [00:16:36] it, 30 is an unbelievable number that I, I don't know how that happened. Suddenly I look back like, holy smokes, it's been [00:16:42] three decades. I was in that job longer than Johnny Carson was in his job. That's insane. [00:16:48] So yes, it was time to move on.

Yes. And

the, the actual fact right, [: 00:16:54

Deborah Norville: Barbara Walters was 25. Sorry. Barbara was 20. [00:17:12] 20, I think it was on 2020, you know, in, in the same job.

t. That's what we're talking [: 00:17:18

Daryn Kagan: Yeah. [00:17:24] Very good. Crazy. Well, you, you, you definitely have done that. And the [00:17:30] theme that, what I think of this conversation is starting over.

Deborah Norville: Yeah.

you, and I was talking about [: 00:17:36

And that is, you know, I'm ev, [00:17:54] things are good, things are fine, but as I look forward mm-hmm, I can see that this isn't gonna serve me [00:18:00] going into my future. And so you pick yourself up from a comfortable. Excellent situation. And you, [00:18:06] and you start over. And I think that that's amazing. I think that's brave. I think that's inspiring.

I think that's a whole other [: 00:18:12

Deborah Norville: Well, I'll tell you, it's probably easier to do what I'm doing right now because I have [00:18:18] done what you did getting kicked on your butt. I know. Out the door and all that good stuff. So, um, I think the [00:18:24] lucky ones of us have our crisis before we're 40 because there's something.

ut that number. If you're on [: 00:18:30

A new chapter begins [00:18:54] and when, when I've written a few books, I always like to start my chapters with a quote [00:19:00] and, and if I were putting the quote on the page of whatever chapter number this is for this, this new [00:19:06] part of my life, it would probably be something that's kind of been playing in my head, which is don't be [00:19:12] sad that it's ending.

ppened. And I think when you [: 00:19:18

And, and the other thing about it is I realized. [00:19:36] As I was looking back on some of the amazing things that I got to do and the, the moments and I was, [00:19:42] you know, I'm sorry that Pope Francis died, but I was really glad he did before I left Inside Edition. 'cause I got to do one more Pope funeral at [00:19:48] the Vatican.

mories and instead of being. [: 00:19:54

Look back on your happy memories and, and some of the ways you activate positive, [00:20:18] um, mechanisms, mechanisms in your body. So I realized, well, there's a, there's a prosaic reason why I'm getting [00:20:24] kind of jazzed about looking back at the past and not getting modlin about it.

Daryn Kagan: So there's a [: 00:20:30

There's like a release of a hormone or something that actually yeah, there's you, you've

: got the do the, the, yeah. [: 00:20:36

For instance [00:20:48] in this, I actually, I called up and interviewed the professor at Rutgers University who's been studying this. [00:20:54] That's how weird I am. And I was talking to him and I said, so tell me what have you found? He said, you know, you've had an MRI [00:21:00] probably right. Ever. Yes. I mean, they're scary, right? You get in that thing, it's scary.

It's very [: 00:21:06

When you, when you think about those things, and they have it written down, [00:21:24] they wait a couple of days, then they bring the people back and they put them in the MRI machine and they [00:21:30] ask them, so they're doing a brain scan, an active brain scan. They ask them to think about those memories, and while they're in [00:21:36] there, they're asking them probing questions about those particular memories and they're.

They're seeing the brain [: 00:21:42

I'm having a great time. Leave [00:22:00] me in. That's how powerful. The power of memory can [00:22:06] be of happy memories, so, so everybody who's listing make a list of the good stuff that's happened in your [00:22:12] life in the past, because it'll probably help you have better stuff happen in the future.

Daryn Kagan: Well, I suspect [: 00:22:18

Yeah. So [00:22:24] if you'll allow me for a second, I wanna go to a, a not so happy memory because I think it led to a really good place. [00:22:30] And that is what, what happened with the Today Show. Mm-hmm. So here you were. I don't wanna say Golden [00:22:36] Child because you were a full fledged woman, but you were just Well, they said Golden Girl Superstar.

olden Girl. Um, because they [: 00:22:42

Hormones and this and that in your career. That must have been, was that a [00:23:06] difficult time? I mean, that, that was starting over. That was like a big what now?

ah. That was, that was a big [: 00:23:12

I believe that's a direct quote. Um, and it pretty well [00:23:30] summed up my career. But, um. And what I, for anybody who's [00:23:36] listening, who's, who's really gone through something similarly mm-hmm. Uh, devastating as that was for me. [00:23:42] Um, I'd love to share what I learned and let me find a pencil here. I'm just gonna [00:23:48] lean forward and I'm gonna just draw a little thing.

one of the things, so we all [: 00:23:54

Daryn Kagan: people can see us and some people are listen, are just

listening. So, so if you're [: 00:24:06

It's a circle with the spokes. Mm-hmm. And then there's the thing in the middle. Mm-hmm. And [00:24:12] what I realized I had done is fall into the trap that most of us, many of us do. And that was, [00:24:18] I defined who I was. By what I did and suddenly what I did, I don't do [00:24:24] anymore and likely will never, ever do again because as the men man from the Tribune said, I've been left for [00:24:30] dead on the side of the road.

be a a television reporter. [: 00:24:36

That's a label. It's like those name tags you get at a conference. Hello, my name is. [00:25:00] What you Do is one of those labels. Who you are is what you believe in. Who you are is why [00:25:06] you think you were put on this planet. Who you are is, um. [00:25:12] Is is how you believe you are meant to serve others. 'cause I believe we're all meant to serve others.

Um, [: 00:25:18

But when you know who you are, you've got that strong foundation and [00:25:48] every decision you make. Who I'm gonna marry, where I'm gonna work, what my profession's gonna be, how I'm gonna volunteer, where I [00:25:54] wanna live, what clubs do I wanna join, whatever the decision. If you make it based on who you are, [00:26:00] you will make a better decision.

at decision, whatever it is, [: 00:26:06

Just like that man who said you didn't have the it back in the day. [00:26:30] Um, those helpful people may say those helpful things, and I put air quotes around that, but [00:26:36] you won't listen because you know what's right. For you and you will go forward. And so I [00:26:42] went through a process where I had to redefine who I was and figure that [00:26:48] out.

o job, I said, well, I don't [: 00:26:54

And then they said, and this is your

Daryn Kagan: first

learning to be a mom? Very, [: 00:27:12

I'm proud to say [00:27:24] I, I, I should have probably had, um, professional help, but I'm proud to say I devised my own [00:27:30] method of cognitive behavioral therapy. I now know that's what it was. And that really started me down this path of, [00:27:36] of being fascinated by how, how our mindset can control [00:27:42] everything in our life.

n have to do with that. But, [: 00:27:48

Um, but they wanted to come [00:28:06] to the pity party for Deborah Norville because they wanted to show their support for a woman in our business. Mm-hmm. [00:28:12] So again, those women were there for me. So why wouldn't it be there up for somebody else? [00:28:18] Yeah. They showed up. Yeah. In a big way.

ft CNN, so they didn't renew [: 00:28:24

Yep. A very good friend sat down with me and she said, we're not doing a [00:28:30] business plan, and this will support your idea. We are going to do a belief plan. Hmm. What are your beliefs? What are [00:28:36] your values? What's important? What are your absolute nos? Yep. And because I had that framework, [00:28:42] as these different opportunities came up.

I do that. I don't do that, [: 00:28:48

Deborah Norville: forward? Yeah. That's a great way, um, that's a better way, honestly, to, to. [00:29:00] To frame it, um, because you have, you've built, you've built the structure [00:29:06] of that future house, which is you.

ou've got the studs. Mm-hmm. [: 00:29:12

Daryn Kagan: And, [00:29:24] and things fit or they don't. And then with, with your, um, journey as it went from there, [00:29:30] it did wasn't a straight line, but it did lead to Inside Edition, which would seem from here [00:29:36] was a much better match for you.

but personally than had you [: 00:29:42

Deborah Norville: Yeah. Um, and in fact, I, I, I realized there've only been three [00:29:48] times in my life. I've made. Career decisions for personal reasons. And the first was when I left Chicago where I was, [00:29:54] um, a Monday through Friday anchor and they were offering me, you know, like the 10 o'clock news, which is the big one in local TV there.

And. [: 00:30:00

Daryn Kagan: wait, let me just jump in. How, when you, if you're, if you're an anchor in [00:30:12] Chicago Uhhuh, how do you meet a great guy in New York? How did that happen?

rough your cousin in Sweden? [: 00:30:18

I worked at the NBC [00:30:42] station in Chicago and I got the job. So I moved to New York, not because I had a great job. [00:30:48] That was just lucky I moved because of this guy. And then I left CBS news after I did the radio show [00:30:54] from the Today Show. Then I joined CBS news and mm-hmm they, they offered me weekend anchor.

That's a big deal [: 00:31:00

So for the second time in [00:31:18] my career, I made a professional decision for personal reasons. Who thought [00:31:24] Inside Edition was gonna last this long or be as, as fulfilling and, and meaningful, not [00:31:30] just for me, but to America, uh, as it has been. And the third decision was the decision to leave. And again, it was for [00:31:36] family reasons.

d what the belief system is, [: 00:31:42

Daryn Kagan: I would love to be in the room for [00:32:00] so many of your conversations, like when you told these bosses, thanks, but no thanks. But also [00:32:06] with your boyfriend, future husband. The good news is I, I have a job in New York. The bad news is [00:32:12] I'll be getting up at two 17 every morning and I won't be much fun past five o'clock.

eborah Norville: Yeah, yeah. [: 00:32:18

Uh, I, I can't know that, but I can have faith that that's the case [00:32:48] and, and therefore go proudly and positively and confidently into the future.

Daryn Kagan: I mean, you [: 00:32:54

Yeah, yeah. What is good for your family and with all the correct intentions [00:33:06] and how it kind of works out or doesn't work out is almost details after that, right? Yeah. 'cause it was made with [00:33:12] the right purpose.

aying, trust the process? If [: 00:33:18

You should be fine. [00:33:24]

you are hosting a game show. [: 00:33:30

Deborah Norville: own

Daryn Kagan: fun story. Where

Deborah Norville: did that come

Daryn Kagan: from?

Deborah Norville: It, [: 00:33:36

I need to do more stuff, you know, I'm [00:33:48] bored. I need to put me in coach. Put me in coach. Exactly. And, and I pitched them with some ideas that I had and [00:33:54] um, and I honestly believe that last summer they just said, oh, for heaven's sakes, just. Shut the woman [00:34:00] up. Let's, let's just go shoot this pilot with her.

thing. And so last summer we [: 00:34:06

So one of the questions was, I'll put one of the lyrics from the Sound of Music's [00:34:30] my favorite things on the board, and let's say it's Bright Copper Kettles. And Darren, you're our first contestant. Your clue is, [00:34:36] oh my gosh. Okay. Pressure's on warm wool and mittens. Does warm wool and mittens come in the song before [00:34:42] or after bright copper kettles?

And if you need to sing, you just go right ahead.

n Kagan: No. If we need this [: 00:34:48

Well, there you go. Thanks to, thanks to, because [00:35:06] I'm tone deaf, so a terrible voice. That's great. Yes. We won't have me sing, but, um, okay. Warren will admit [00:35:12] mittens and what was, and the copper, uh, uh, bright copper cows. I'm gonna say, okay. I'm gonna say, and this is just a [00:35:18] guess. Mm-hmm. Mittens goes. Before the kettles.

So, sorry, you're wrong. [: 00:35:24

Deborah Norville: had a 50% chance, so you're out this round. But let's say, um, you would've gotten it right, then you would share [00:35:30] in the money that round. Okay. At the end of four rounds, the guy with the most money or gal goes to the final round and they can win as much as [00:35:36] $15,000. So there's, it's, it's not as, as brain breaking as jeopardy.[00:35:42]

ways, you know, nice and um. [: 00:35:48

Daryn Kagan: Do you know why I think it's gonna [00:35:54] work? Because even in that description, I can picture sitting in front of the television. It's one of those game shows that you talk at the [00:36:00] tv.

or you're guessing you feel [: 00:36:06

Deborah Norville: to our conversation. You can [00:36:12] listen to it. So you might be in the kitchen making supper.

een, but you can hear what's [: 00:36:18

I can't wait picture to get it on tv.

uge, huge hit. And so you're [: 00:36:36

Deborah Norville: Excited. Exactly. Shooting later this [00:36:42] summer. And what I'm really excited about, I said, we're gonna need people to help with audience [00:36:48] coordination and runners and production coordinators and stuff.

said. You know where you can [: 00:36:54

Yes. Who are working on the game show. You are my [00:37:12] alma mater. Alma Honor. Exactly. Go dogs. Go dogs. Yeah. So very happy that, um, I'm getting to [00:37:18] do this great game show, but I'm also getting to create an opportunity for, uh, [00:37:24] terrific young people to get their foot in the business.

Daryn Kagan: That is, that's just incredible.

So we've [: 00:37:30

Deborah Norville: I got a couple of things that, you [00:37:36] know, you don't wanna jinx 'em by talking about 'em before that. Like, I hate these people say, oh, I'm writing a book. And then like, where's the [00:37:42] book? Where's the book? I never talked about books until they literally had a pub date.

oh, I've written this book. [: 00:37:48

Daryn Kagan: You have a standing invitation. Thank you. Are, have any of these adult children produced? Do they understand the [00:38:00] assignment? Has anybody produced a grandchild for you yet?

Well, I can now

answer that question in the [: 00:38:06

Yes, I [00:38:18] can, I can be a grandmother and I've already started knitting the Christmas stocking for baby to be named later [00:38:24] who is supposed to come in October. Oh

ations. Thank you. Thank you [: 00:38:30

Deborah Norville: Well, no, I haven't, [00:38:42] and I would love it if, um, if, if your listeners and viewers would like [00:38:48] to. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Provide some, some hints or some suggestions. 'cause I honest to gosh, don't know [00:38:54] what it, what it will be, but it can't be grandma and my husband Swedish. And you're not a granny. And I'm granny [00:39:00] and, and in Swedish it would be far more, um, that's grandmother in Swedish.

And that just, that [: 00:39:06

Daryn Kagan: Okay, the [00:39:12] hunt is on and maybe the, the baby to be will actually come up with the name. Some people say that like they, they will name you.

Deborah Norville: [: 00:39:18

And, um, my eldest niece couldn't say chocolate chip, [00:39:30] but she would say, Chachi. And grandma would always bring the chocolate chips. Her name became Chachi, [00:39:36] so, okay. So very good. That could very well be how it happens. Just the baby comes up with it. [00:39:42]

ell my girls, this is why we [: 00:39:48

Where's my grandchild? Yeah, yeah. It's a little bit early, but, um Oh, but they'll there. Oh, that is so [00:39:54] exciting. If no other, yes. If no other reason that would be a reason to, to leave Inside Edition to be. On [00:40:00] full-time call.

days [: 00:40:06

Yes,

Daryn Kagan: it's meant

Deborah Norville: to be. I see a

Daryn Kagan: [: 00:40:18

So we are here, um, Trent and I, and then we have. [00:40:42] Our, uh, neighbor's property, which we've turned into an Airbnb. And so while you are up in Atlanta this [00:40:48] summer, if you and Carl wanna get away, or the kids, if you wanna meet anybody, come on down. Oh God. We'll take you out and [00:40:54] see all the barrier islands and that.

Oh, it's so beautiful. I mean, just with the

n the Yes. The back of your, [: 00:41:00

Daryn Kagan: at Miss Lou [00:41:06] Capin. We would love to have you would love that. Thank you so much.

Deborah Norville: Thank you, Darren. It's so great to see you.

Daryn Kagan: [: 00:41:12

It's just about starting. But as you start, know who you are, know your why, [00:41:42] know your values, and that's really what's gonna guide you as you go into that next chapter. [00:41:48] And speaking of next chapters, how about breaking some news there? Deborah Norville is going to be a [00:41:54] grandmother. I am so excited for her and she's asking us for help.

do with a friend, you ask a [: 00:42:00

You can find. Call Me Friend, podcast and look for a clip and you can comment [00:42:24] there. And I have a phone number you can call. The number for Call me Friend is [00:42:30] (912) 766-0446. You can call that [00:42:36] number twenty four seven because I don't hear it ring. It goes right to voicemail. So if you are [00:42:42] listening at two in the morning and you have a great idea about.

. Then pick up the phone and [: 00:42:48

The show is produced by Producer, podcast and Journeys [00:43:12] Inc. Production help by Abe Eck, Tammy gno and Rob Paw. [00:43:18]

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Call a friend. Call this [00:43:42] [00:43:48] friend.